Curse

bhavv · Jun 11, 2007, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

Uh? My monk/elly?

I meant on you monk or elly, meaning that those two classes are the ones using Mytstic regen with a derv secondary.

zwei2stein · Jun 11, 2007, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

As posted above, even the most experienced interrupter has extreme difficulty in interrupting 1/4 sec cast times.

If they simply changed the skill to a 1 second cast time (similar to Healing Breeze), I'd be very happy.

Hello?

the main thing that really keeps earth tank alive is stoneflesh. Which has casting time long enough to make fun of anyone who cant interupt it, hence that interupt skill list.

Mystic regen being reason for earth ele thughness is really bad diagnosis.

Anzway, you are talking about ... RA? umm, something being overpowered in RA is really bad reson for nerf.

Hell, someone could be QQing the same way about healing hands/dolyak wammos.

Curse You · Jun 11, 2007, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Remember Touch Rangers? Everyone complained about them. Finally, everyone realized how much they suck.
The E/D tanks are just the new Touch Rangers. They can't do crap for damage, they just tank the morons who are dumb enough to keep hitting them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Smit

I think u better get some appropriate skills to stop 1/4 activation time skills from getting off. Predictive shooting savage shot is not really gonna work, the window of oppertunity is too small IMHO. Ypu would need to predict within a window of 1/4 second when he/she is gonna cast. Players are not bots, and there is some variability when they are gonna cast it.

I once interrupted Distracting Shot with Distracting Shot. It's not impossible to interrupt 1/4 second cast spells (Jade Brotherhood Mesmers do it all the time).

Tea Girl · Jun 11, 2007, 07:02 PM // 19:02

bring an enchant removal in RA... or pray someone in your team has one and uses it right.

fowlero · Jun 11, 2007, 07:11 PM // 19:11

mystic regen is a nice skill, a powerful one but i wouldnt say that overpowered. i mean here some have made it sound like your treating it as a instant invincibility skill

as said before the crux of a earth tanks build is Stoneflesh Aura which is plenty interuptable and has a relatively balanced rechare (15secs if my memory is right), see this for yourself by trying to run a E/D without it. Distracting shot on stoneflesh is enough to send any E/D crying.

however i do think something could be done to reduce its effectiveness, i think it should be a more pvp directed change. by this i mean an increase in recharge time (1second for instance), and activation time (perhaps 15seconds as with Stoneflesh). this would remove a fair part of its pvp "effectiveness" without harming pve farmers or tanks that much (we're all in the same game).

in fairness, in AB (call it pvp i guess) earth tanks can have plenty of offense, mostly due to sliver armor and slightly lazy-eyed assassins xD

jus my thoughts

Sk8tborderx · Jun 11, 2007, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Make it 1 second cast time like healing breeze. Honestly, 1/4 sec cast time on this skill is retarded, but changing it to 1 second is all that is needed IMO.

Patrick Smit · Jun 11, 2007, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

... I once interrupted Distracting Shot with Distracting Shot. It's not impossible to interrupt 1/4 second cast spells (Jade Brotherhood Mesmers do it all the time).

Yes ofcourse u are able to interupt on chance any action, the chance is directly correlating to how much u spam your interupt skill, and how big the window of oppertunity is.

Reliably interupting skills is way more difficult. Jade brotherhood mesmers (and others are AI. they dont have response times, and they are "on the server" (or maybe even on your computer these days as i dont know how they exactly prgram) so have no issues with internet connectivity/lag. With some fastcast they will be able to interupt any skill except ones that are instantaneous. Humans will never achieve this level of perfection. Im already glad i can reliably interupt 1 sec spells, 0.75 can go wrong, and well, i will not pretend here i can reliably interupt reversal of fortune with cry of frustration

kvndoom · Jun 11, 2007, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Move it to Mysticism and the E/D's will be replaced by D/E's... probably the same people who were using the ele's before, too. Moving it won't change anything. If nothing else, you'll be seeing Avatars of Dwayna running around with +10 Regenration and raping folks with Scythe attacks (which will hurt a LOT more than Stone Daggers ever could).

Regen by itself is nothing. Good damage will beat out even max regen. The problem is Stoneflesh, as many have said. Without it, the build fails miserably. The real question is whether Stoneflesh needs a nerf. 2 second cast time makes it easy interrupt bait for physical interrupters, since they'll probably have Obsidian Flesh up and spell interrupts would fail. It could use a damage reduction reduction... wow that sounded funny.

I get frustrated by it sometimes myself, but you know, you have to remind yourself like I do that "this is RA... where even PVE builds win games." Nuff said.

Curse You · Jun 11, 2007, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Smit

Yes ofcourse u are able to interupt on chance any action, the chance is directly correlating to how much u spam your interupt skill, and how big the window of oppertunity is.

Reliably interupting skills is way more difficult. Jade brotherhood mesmers (and others are AI. they dont have response times, and they are "on the server" (or maybe even on your computer these days as i dont know how they exactly prgram) so have no issues with internet connectivity/lag. With some fastcast they will be able to interupt any skill except ones that are instantaneous. Humans will never achieve this level of perfection. Im already glad i can reliably interupt 1 sec spells, 0.75 can go wrong, and well, i will not pretend here i can reliably interupt reversal of fortune with cry of frustration

Many times they will be using [wiki]Signet of Disruption[/wiki] to interrupt. Try telling me that their Fast Casting has anything to do with that.
Also, though they may be AI, they still have to abide by the rules of the game, being that if you cast a 1/4 second cast skill, and they try to interrupt it with a 1/4 second cast interrupt, it won't work because they still take a fraction of a second to react.

makosi · Jun 11, 2007, 09:10 PM // 21:10

The only E/Ds that are slightly threatening are those with Sandstorm - which you simply walk out of. If their Elite is Obsidian Flesh they're hyper-defesive and won't deal much damage so you can wait for Obsidian Flesh to drop then take them down.

My Green Storage · Jun 11, 2007, 09:15 PM // 21:15

I will say this, when I was trying out Migraine, Conjure Phantasm and Conjure Nightmare on my Mesmer, it was god damn funny to see them (or anyone) spam Breeze, Mystic trying to counter it.

The problem is they don't use Glyph of concentration

Anyone with common sense that's E/D would run what, stoneflesh, armor of earth and obsidian flesh with glyph of concentration and mystic regen +earth attunement .. so pick 2 offensive skills and run it.

And only the truly stupid ones would get into aggro range (versus mesmer, sin, necro) or a little wider (versus rangers) to activate the glyph and possibly be interrupted.

Glyph + stoneflesh + obsidian flesh + armor of Earth + mystic regen (1/4 sec activation on both I believe?)
Pick 2 offensive skills and do yer thing.

So it isn't truly mystic regen, what ele really has those many enchants that any sort of degen + enchant strip+ attack spike can't counter?

+3 per enchant. stoneflesh, armor of earth, mystic regen, aura of restoration, earth attunement(usually) ... very few use obsidian flesh and VERY few (in AB) use the glyph.
5 enchants. +15 regen.

If you SEE them put the enchants on, what the hell does that tell you?
Gee, maybe INTERRUPT stoneflesh or armor of earth ...and hey get this ... WAIT FOR THEM TO FINISH AND STRIP THE ENCHANTS!! ZomG does tat werk?!?!?
15 recharge on stoneflesh and armor of earth.
45 recharge on earth attunement.

Some of you are just unbelieveable.
That means you have a 15 second window to kill them when they have no extra armor, and 3 less enchants.

Please tell me what ONLY having mystic regen and a +3 regen is going to do?

So only the stupid complain about a stupid build and a basic regen skill.

Crazy huh?
Teh +3 regen is too much RAGEQUIT!!

Juicey Shake · Jun 11, 2007, 09:26 PM // 21:26

longer recharge and 1s cast time would be beautiful thnx anet.

Patrick Smit · Jun 11, 2007, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

Many times they will be using [wiki]Signet of Disruption[/wiki] to interrupt. Try telling me that their Fast Casting has anything to do with that.
Also, though they may be AI, they still have to abide by the rules of the game, being that if you cast a 1/4 second cast skill, and they try to interrupt it with a 1/4 second cast interrupt, it won't work because they still take a fraction of a second to react.

I would agree with you, and I was discussing spell use, I didnt know that they specifically used the signet for it. I dont bother with Jades too much but beware that they use powerreturn too. But it should be easy to discrimate by monitoring damage.

However we are straying from the discussion, interupts are just not the best tool to battle mystic regeneration. Should they change it? Maybe yes, to make it in line with other regen spells. Is it hard to counter? No not really, but u need to devote a skill slot to it, Though disenchant skills will come in handy against other players as well.

lennymon · Jun 11, 2007, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Yes, let's nerf more skills because *you* are unable to counter them with builds that lack enchant removal, good plan. It would take FAR less time to say, adjust your build so that it counters this skill than it did to say...hmm, post in this thread.

Diddy bow · Jun 11, 2007, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Its not overpowerd. Its hardely as good for farming as prot spirit. And in pvp as so many have said just attack someone else they sit and tank till the rest of the team is dead and then4 people hardly have a hard time killing it. It has a tiny attack.

Inde · Jun 11, 2007, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Any insult to an individual or the community as a whole will result in your post being deleted. Please keep your posts on topic and contributing.

bungusmaximus · Jun 11, 2007, 11:48 PM // 23:48

If I am on my ele and I meet a serious group they usually ask me to swap mystic regen and put in something that helps the entire team (usually hex/condi removal against daze and hex stacks). My invincibility doesn't help much when the melee is hexed and the monk is dazed :P.

The skill is very often used in AB, also on damage eles. It's the perfect way to stay alive when your team sucks and runs off in 3 different directions. It's not nerf worthy just because of that imo.

Moving mystic regen to mysticysm=bad, dervishes will get free heals without investing attribute points in earth prayers. Dervishes are fine now except that retarded melandru form.

Drazaar · Jun 12, 2007, 12:00 AM // 00:00

I dont get all this complaints about a slightly better in some fashions but worse in others healing breeze.

Its conditional to make it worth your while as in gotta get your Earth prayer up to 8 and you get no runes unless your characters a derv to help on that.

Its an enchantment so every other class save a ranger, warrior, and I think para has at least some encchant remove abilities! And since we get secondary profs the concept of a balanced team not having at least some form of enchant removal is kinda silly to me.

Theres so many ways to rip enchantments off like nobodys business.

But then again I guess its easier to whine about it to fix it rather then do some easy thinking? Cause the thought that this skill is "broken" is silly.

Im sorry but I truly hope ANET ignores this complaint realizing that its a basic enchant so in on itself theres so many ays to rip it off the user, and since E/D tanks are bothering you you should realize its not the regen its the stoneflesh that causing you this gripe, and as pointed out at 2 second casting for a moderate lasting time it should also be easily counterable.

I also hope that ANET realizes it cause as much as moving it to mysticsm is a grudginly acceptable nerf you KNOW they wont do that they will instead nerf it in some fashion where 1 of those few skills that are nice for all classes will be nerfed to a point where NO classes use it.

Navaros · Jun 12, 2007, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Mystic Regen does not need a nerf. If they are gonna do anything to it they should simply move it to Mysticism. Any nerfing of it beyond that would be ludicrous and illegitimate.

Neo Nugget · Jun 12, 2007, 12:53 AM // 00:53

My idea would be to daze them. Its been really helpful on my sin when in RA facing those e/d tanks